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The DNA of an Authentic Leader: Callie Schweitzer, LinkedIn

Updated: Dec 2, 2022

This is a link you can use to find Authentic Avenue, a marketing podcast hosted by Adam Conner, on Apple Podcasts. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review!

On today's Authentic Avenue podcast, Adam brings his career full-circle. Our guest is Callie Schweitzer, Senior Marketing Editor for LinkedIn News. (Adam had his first professional experience at LinkedIn in 2013, as an intern in NYC!)

Today, Callie and Adam discuss what makes up the DNA of an authentic marketer, including specific examples of each (and specific people to follow on LinkedIn as inspiration). Also discussed: the Great Resignation / Reshuffle, aligning internal and external brand, marketing FOMO, and world-class advice.

Here are a few amazing marketers you should follow on the platform (profiles linked to each): Lisa Mann, Soyoung Kang, Kofi Amoo-Gottfried, Dara Treseder, Jabari Hearn, Julian Duncan, and Andrea Brimmer.

And, of course, follow Callie:

Other popular resources for marketing expertise on LinkedIn are Callie's Marketer Must Read and Jessi Hempel's Hello Monday podcast.

Enjoy! Full transcript below.


LinkedIn (Authentic Avenue):

Email Adam at

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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW: (powered by AI; 100% accuracy not guaranteed; provided by Descript)

Adam Conner: [00:00:00] Callie. How are you? Thank you for joining me.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:00:02] Thanks so much for having me, Adam. I'm big fan of this podcast. So I'm so thrilled to be here.

Adam Conner: [00:00:07] You know, as somebody who is, uh, in their newest chapter of this world, uh, that means more than, you know, specifically, because it brings a specific journeys of my life full circle. Obviously you are at LinkedIn, you cover marketing every single day. You're the top dog there. When it comes to publishing thought leaders. In this discipline. And LinkedIn is also where I started my professional journey. Just eight years ago. I was a summer intern, maybe one of the first LinkedIn turns in New York in the empire state building and made the trip wants to mountain view.

But, uh, it was, things were a lot different back then ever since things have grown like crazy, they brought folks like you on. I remember watching like Dan Roth, like scooter through the hall. And now here you are today, cover in the world of CMOs, just like me. And, um, it's wonderful to now the connection.

So thanks for coming on for that. If nothing else!

Callie Schweitzer: [00:01:06] I love it. Thank you so much. LinkedIn's always bringing people together, right?

Adam Conner: [00:01:11] Certainly is. And we'll talk a little bit later in the show about how it continues to do that. Even in this remote hybrid context, of course, LinkedIn, everybody, you, you probably access it virtually because you probably don't work there.

Statistically, if you're listening to this and we'll talk about some people to follow on the platform through the conversation today. I want to center first on that, a word, which I pursue so desperately week to week here, which is authenticity. I want to ask you these questions, Callie, because you look at the world of CMOs through this LinkedIn lens, similar to the way that I do through this purposeful podcast, but you're able to take in profiles consistent.

And my guess is can sniff out what is truly authentic about these folks and where maybe folks need a little bit of work. Now we're not going to focus on the latter there rather. We're going to talk about the DNA of what makes an authentic leader, specific examples they're in and specific people there in that we can look up to as we build our own authentic journeys.

That sounds great. Excellent. So let's start then with that DNA, because I know that there are a few things that you see and that you know about what makes a leader and a marketing leader specifically authentic. It's a big word. And maybe we should even start with the definition. I mean, do you have one in mind when you think about that?

A word? What, what core qualities come to mind first? And then we'll get into the specifics of like the leaders who dot, dot. But let's start really broad, if we could.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:02:43] I love that we're talking about this and your podcast is so perfectly named because alongside authentic there's empathy and innovation and disruption, and all of these things, words that I think really lose their value, but you're absolutely right.

That there are a few key things that really stick out about what makes someone an authentic leader. And I think the first thing I would say is. Leaders who treat internal and external brand as the same thing. So it used to be that you could have a consumer facing brand that stood for one thing. And behind the scenes, you had an employer brand that might not be as rosy.

And I think that the changes of the last several years in terms of. Consumer and employee demand for brands to be clear about what they stand for is something that has really changed this for the better. It's something that the most authentic leaders take the way they lead internally and the culture of that internal organization.

And they lead with that in their marketing. Yeah, externally, I think this is something we're going to continue to see. As we have seen this shift in belief driven buyers, people who want to buy from companies that they believe align with their values. That's not just externally that's do they show up for their people?

Do do they take care of their people in the same way? And if so, are they actually doing it? Instead of just saying it.

Adam Conner: [00:04:12] Now there is a lot of saying that I have perceived over the last couple of years. It's crazy to think that I've been looking at this word for the last three. And even within that so much has changed.

Societaly environmentally, obviously over the last year, it's changed the most. And so I think it's difficult to figure out unless you talk to the people specifically, whether they're internal or external brand is truly alone. But one thing I know through it all is that brands who were able to market externally and authentically are those that first build up internal advocacy, because those are your biggest fans and thus either your biggest advocates or your biggest salespeople, or even your biggest recruiters.

And I want to get on that last word very, very briefly. Because there is this phenomenon, which may be media-driven. We don't know, uh, called the great resignation. Now everybody's seen that. I think Bloomberg started with that word. And then, uh, famously, uh, later on Ryan Rose Lansky, the CEO of LinkedIn, um, who was, who was there by the way, when I was, when I was interning, uh, is.

Now calling it the great reshuffle. So it might be a resignation and a, and a reincarnation, maybe in another industry or inter industry. But regardless, you're going to look at many brands who are going to find increased attrition numbers, probably this year based on what happened last year. And it might even continue into 22.

Uh, to what extent do you believe that internal external alignment can mitigate the effects of that reshuffle? If not a resignation.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:05:46] The internal component is absolutely critical because people want to work at places that they're proud of just as consumers want to buy from brands that they're proud of, or that they're excited about.

I think I love this term, the great reshuffle, because we're all rethinking how we live and work. And it's also an important question why we work. Why we do what it is that we do. Um, morning console shared exclusive data with me that showed that 79% of people care more about enjoying their job than the prestige of the company that they work at.

This is so tied into another buzzword, which is perfect. And the idea that people want to do something that is going to make a difference in the world. When I spoke with a Frank Cooper, who's the COO of BlackRock. He said the best talent believes that they deserve to work somewhere that is greater than themselves, where you're really making an impact and a difference.

And I think that's going to be critical. If you no longer think your company aligns with your values, you're out the door. You're reshuffling your priorities in your life.

Adam Conner: [00:06:54] And I wonder though, let me, let me ask a very quick tangential question. Do you think that that relationship between a culture as a stickiness factor versus the prestige of the company changes as seniority changes, or do you think that that's prevalent across.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:07:09] Can you clarify that a little bit?

Adam Conner: [00:07:11] Sure thing. So somebody who's just out of school may choose to join a large bank or consulting firm because of the name cred, you know, ex Googler is something I see in a lot of LinkedIn headlines. And I just wonder as people move up, the leadership chain is that prestige still as much of a factor.

And I guess in the end versus true, like, do you think that that culture truly does trump prestige across the board?

Callie Schweitzer: [00:07:38] It's a great question. When I shared this morning, consult data on LinkedIn, I ask people, you know, has the importance of prestige changed in your life? And all of these people who would consider themselves mid to late career are posted saying, I wish I hadn't cared about it.

I wish I hadn't been so focused on it. You know, personally, When I was taking my first job out of college, what I thought about was not prestige. I thought about, can I go and make a big difference? Where can I be a big fish in a small pond? And, you know, in that case, it was a 30 person company where everybody was a big fish in a small pond.

You had the opportunity to do so much and to learn so much. And I think it absolutely helps when you have those big brand names on your resume. But I think we're going to also increasingly see that people. May decide that's no longer what they want. And I think we're going to see a huge change in regard to what employers are requiring of people.

When they go back, what is their flexibility? Is there not, you know, how, how has COVID changed the way in which the corporation will function both internally and externally, that's going to be huge from a marketing perspective.

Adam Conner: [00:08:50] Gosh, I wish I had that insight. Not to say that I was, uh, particularly poor in my choice meeting, but I mean, coming out of that to tell my personal surface, second comment coming out of Harvard was very much like if you didn't go to a big bank or a big four consulting, or like join a super cool startup or tech company or go to business school, it was like, what were you doing?

I wish I hadn't been so colored by. Because my guess is that my search would have been much broader than where I eventually looked, which was banking, consulting tech. Now that's a great journey, but I'm not mid to late career. And I almost wish that I had that perspective. I think I had dollar signs in my eyes as opposed to anything else, which is maybe just a young, greedy guy in the world.

That being, uh, what it's, uh, what it is flexibility is now awfully important. Now I say that working from home currently, but this idea of flexible working, we have seen large players either put their stake in the ground or not put their stake in the ground. Interestingly, this internal and external brand.

How do you believe that that remains aligned when the inherent experience of working will either be an in-person office experience? Or an office desk at home.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:10:07] It's going to be so important for companies and leaders to be thinking about inclusion and what that means. How do you think about the person who is working from home or working from somewhere remotely and isn't there for the water cooler conversation or isn't there for the conversation that happens right after the meeting in the hallway, you know, I've been hearing different examples of people experimenting with technology.

Everybody who's in the office is still on a screen. They still have their individual laptops up and everybody is on the screen, even if they're in the room together. And I think that things like that and different efforts are going to be really important. And it's going to be key to a brand's internal brand, this idea of how have they navigated this new world.

Have they kept them? And making efforts to be inclusive and to make people feel they belong because there's diversity, there's equity, there's inclusion and there's belonging. And when it comes to belonging, that is something that is so critical to deciding where you want to work.

Adam Conner: [00:11:09] And that is something I want to talk about next, because of course you have big corporations saying either, you know, work, what makes sense for you, or we'd like people to back in the office and there's backlash or celebration on either side.

But this is another element of being an authentic leader. Maybe not in that specific realm, but broadly I know that one of your perspectives is that part of that authentic DNA, uh, is in that saying nothing rather than rushing to do something when a flavor of the week. Takes hold. I think this has been important when social issues have come to light, but I'd be curious to hear from you that not rushing part.

How does that contribute to whether a leader is perceived as authentic or not?

Callie Schweitzer: [00:11:56] It's the comfort in knowing that you don't need to do everything. And I think this is something that the most authentic leaders have confidence in the fact that they know where to show up and they know where not to, you know, Lisa Mann.

Who's the COO of a company called rains. International was the former. President of nutrition category at PepsiCo. She talks about this idea that right now, so many brands are only playing in culture. And what that means is really over-indexing on this idea that they have to be part of every mean they have to be part of every single moment and movement and they don't have to be.

And oftentimes. You risk so much with your brand equity and with your reputation, when it comes to saying something that you kind of have no authority on and that you've done no work on. I mean, I talked to the COO of Squarespace and she talked about this idea that yeah. You have to be, your house has to be internally in order before you do anything externally.

And that's really where I think we're going to continue to see over the next few years, people calling out brands that are saying things that they don't actually do.

Adam Conner: [00:13:10] Yeah. Well, that's that? That's that walk and talk, coming back full circle. I think for what it's worth, people are pretty cool. To call out when it happens.

I don't think that that was even so common a few years ago, but especially right now, there is an increasingly skeptical and frankly, at some points crude, When this kind of thing happens. And so there is another part of this, which, um, might not just relate to the latest meme, but might relate to the largest message, which is a general FOMO.

I mean, how do these leaders like build up the willpower to not react or overreact when something comes up like this? I mean, who are a few examples? And I don't want to spoil the question for later, but I mean, you've probably. Seen a few leaders who have recognized that something is popular and specifically knocked on something to avoid that FOMO who are a few?

Callie Schweitzer: [00:14:09] One I would name is Soyoung Kang. She is somebody who she was investing in tick tock early on. And it was the kind of thing where absolutely early on there were skeptics. There were people saying, what are you doing? What is this? Right. But she stayed on it. She invested in it. And now she's in every.

Business of fashion, Digiday ad week adage article about the investment she made, how she stuck to it and how she really committed to something where she felt like this was going to pay off. And I think one of the things I've spoken to her about personally is this idea that she does have FOMO. She says, she looks at the press, she looks at all of these other things and says, Ooh, should we be doing that?

But she doesn't act on something that she doesn't think is right for the brand. And that's where I think it's something else that's so crucial about that is that it maintains internal alignment. Your employee's voices are louder than ever your employees, to your point earlier, they are your greatest advocates.

They can be your biggest, uh, potential PR problem. And that's because. They're going to tell it like it is. I mean, I think in the last year we've seen that your, the employee voice has gotten so much more powerful and people are so much more comfortable speaking up and saying, this doesn't work for me. I mean, you saw with apple, um, a few weeks ago, they said, you know, this is going to be our work from home policies.

And their employees wrote a petition and said like, Hey, this doesn't work for us for the following reasons. I think. People have been really emboldened. And when it comes to someone like so young, I think one of the things to think about is the idea that marketing is such a tennis game in the ball, volleying all over the place.

And the best leaders are the ones who don't confuse their teams. By saying we should be all over these things. I, you know, I often tell people, you don't have to do everything. You have to do everything that matters. And there's a huge distinction between those two things.

Adam Conner: [00:16:18] I'm going to use that tennis analogy in just one second, but, uh, you know, listeners who want to hear more about, so Young's opinions, she's all over the media, including the September 14th edition of Atlantic avenue, which you can go back to, but to go to that tennis analogy for just one moment.

Um, one more thing about the authentic DNA of leaders may be represented in a match such as. Because you have one person volleying the ball over the net, you have somebody on the other side, but then you have crowns of thousands cheering way, way louder, and frankly, doing more for the match sometimes than the people hitting the ball.

And so to do marketers and leaders. Like to give credit where credit is due. Sometimes it's with the broad employee base serving as that advocate. Sometimes it's a team member helping to prop up a campaign or an initiative internally or externally and broadly speaking, I have found that those posts which have done the best on LinkedIn are those which are either advice-based, which I'll talk about in a second or those that thank.

And so in that. I'd like to get your take on that credit giving and how that applies to an authentic leader versus somebody who doesn't tend to do so. So publicly, perhaps being seen as not so authentic.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:17:31] Yeah. I mentioned Lisa Mann earlier, the CMO of Raines International. She was the executive who signed off on Oreos, iconic dunk in the dark tweets.

So in 2013, when the super bowl, uh, stadium, all of a sudden went blackout, there was no power and everyone was freaking out.

Adam Conner: [00:17:49] Much to the chagrin of my Baltimore Ravens, but yes, go ahead. I'm well aware of the game.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:17:53] Lisa was the person who said, yeah, this dunk in the dark thing that I like this that's fun. And she greenlit it and she is the first person to say, Hey, I may get the credit for being the person who said like, yeah, go for it.

But I was sitting on my couch at home. I wasn't at the super bowl. I wasn't in the war room with my team. Two particular people who were really part of that one, a woman named Sarah Hofstetter for her agency, and two opening, Danielle Brown, who was the person who had the idea in the first place. And I think that is so fantastic.

When a leader is able to say like, I'm not behind the most brilliant things that are happening within our brand. I think that's absolutely key. She talks about the fact that you have to have a clear framework and then build freedom in the framework. That's what makes a team able to really function and thrive with each other.

Something else she talks about is the fact that. Oreo. Everybody said, wow, that tweet, you know, the next day it's common in marketing. What's our version of that. What's our "dunk in the dark"?

Adam Conner: [00:19:00] This might be the FOMO creeping in.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:19:02] Yes. Lisa said that tweet was two years in the making. Not because they had ever written it before.

Right. The super bowl moment was something that was completely unexpected. Uh, but because they have been studying the brand DNA and they had been preparing for that. Or a hundredth birthday of Oreo and the idea that there was so much there that they had already worked through, that they knew this moment would be right for the brand.

And that's where I think Lisa and that team are really widely credited as one of the first examples of real-time marketing in history. You know, when I interviewed Lisa recently, somebody asked her, do you think. That moment would still be possible today. And she said, no, it's too crowded. It's too cluttered.

And I thought that was really, really interesting how the times evolve, the stakes change and brands need to change.

Adam Conner: [00:20:01] Well, let's now change to our next question, which is actually directly in line with that giving credit, by the way, thank you and listeners to date. Here's what we've determined that part of the authentic DNA of a leader, not necessarily all of it, but certainly large parts of it are leaders who do the following leaders who are.

Uh, who leaders who align their internal and external brand. That seems to be far and away. At least your primary focus here at Callie, because everything seems to come back to that right now. So big fan of that leaders who are not afraid to not say something and who are not afraid to not give into FOMO and finally leaders who give extensive specific credit where credit is due.

And that's what I want to do here. We've mentioned a few names, but Callie, let me turn this question to you. If you could build an all-star list right now, we're getting towards the middle of the summer. Many sports are going into their all-star games. Let's build one in terms of people that we can look up to who are doing it right right now, for any of those previous building blocks of what makes an, a word authentic leader.

We've mentioned, Lisa, you've mentioned so young. Are there a couple of others or maybe businesses that we can look at, maybe follow on LinkedIn. In terms of, uh, the north star.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:21:16] Yeah. I mean, first of all, I don't even know how many people are on a team like that, but...

Adam Conner: [00:21:22] Maybe go with like five or six, I don't know. I mean, it doesn't have to be crazy.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:21:26] Well, let me just say that my answer will not be all encompassing, but some examples that really come to mind are Kofi Amoo-Gottfried. Who's the head marketer at DoorDash. DoorDash recently premiered a film called "The Soul of the City" at the Tribeca film festival last week.

And Kofi said somewhere in there. Brands are pretty self-serve serving organisms. And when you look at this film, we wanted to be in the total background. This wasn't supposed to be about door dash. It was about, it was supposed to be about the recovery of specific New York city restaurants and restaurant tours.

And he says, This is not, this is not a short term win for us. Right. This is an investment in the brand and showing what we're committed to. I think Kofi is absolutely brilliant. He's someone who does not say anything until he's done it. And I think that is something that is so commendable. Um, I would also say Peloton when a Peloton, top marketers, Dara Treseder. She is somebody who, I think things a lot about this idea of true community and what it means.

And just the other day I was taking a Peloton class and the instructor Maddie was talking about. The importance of Pride Month and the importance of allies and how he personally feels that his co Peloton instructors are the greatest allies he's ever had in his life. And then named specific members of the Peloton leadership team, talking about how devoted the company is to making this environment feel like everyone fits in because everyone does you think about the together we go far.

Tagline of Peloton, that screams community. And when you have somebody like an instructor positioning this brand as something that is so true on the inside to what it says on the outside, that just is the greatest marketing of all time. Everybody wants to be part of it. And something else that I've found really interesting about Dara is that she talks about the fact that.

Some of the best ideas that have happened through Peloton actually started from the community off the platform externally, and it doesn't have to all be homegrown. It doesn't have to all be coming from within the marketing team. She talked about homecoming, which is their annual sort of big weekend of celebration.

And how that started because a group of Peloton members said, Hey, let's go take a bunch of live classes together in person. And they came to New York and they took classes and the brand has now completely taken it on. But what a great example of authentically honoring your community and saying, Hey, you're our greatest assets.

We're going to take what you do, and we're going to amplify it and blow it out of the water.

Adam Conner: [00:24:17] I love that you gave me those examples and listeners we'll put links to their LinkedIn profiles here. It's worth mentioning at this point that obviously, if you want to hear these profiles a week to week and find more of these folks, that again, that all star list was not encompassing, but you can find the full list on Callie's LinkedIn and in the market of mustard, which also.

If I can add two of my own to folks that I've really followed over the last year, uh, being Andrea Brimmer is the Chief Marketing Officer over at Ally Bank who has done so, so much, uh, for, for the community broadly and, and standing up for what. Um, and then I think Jabari Hearn who's the SVP of marketing over at Westbrook who, you know, I got in on that Monday, uh, Monday Night Mentorship Collective at the very beginning and listen in for a few and he's done such great work and everybody on that team, again, that's not an all encompassing list either, cause that's an all-star roster in and of itself, but, um, they they're doing fantastic work too.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:25:11] Yeah, I wanted to elaborate on that a bit. So Jabari, who was the head of former Head of Marketing at Lyft. He and the CMO of the Jacksonville Jaguars, Julian Duncan, started a fantastic LinkedIn group that I think is now almost like 3000 people called Monday Night Mentorship, which is really focused on bringing together marketers of color and building support and building opportunities for networking and mentorship.

You mentioned that. Zooms once a month where they really give you the behind the scenes and they bring in special guests like Mussa Tara, who's the COO of go fund me. They bring in people like Kofi. Amoo-Gottfried to who is on the board there. I think this is something that it's the true power of community.

And it's the true power of LinkedIn. It's the ability to connect with people all over the world and make a difference in each other's lives. It's true generosity.

Adam Conner: [00:26:07] True generosity and listeners. If you go to that group, you're going to find a whole bunch of job opportunities and the ability to learn from others who have walked the path you might be walking right now, but that is a fantastic example.

One of the most prominent recent examples of LinkedIn's power. Let's talk for one second. Before I get to the advice column, which was, that was what I asked most people, uh, about how advice works on LinkedIn as a vehicle for leadership and for growth. I have seen. And I know that you have noted that often folks scale there, leadership and their presence on the platform form through the scaling of their advice.

And I'd love to hear your take as to how, if maybe folks were more like the Monday night mentorship or more like Jabari or Julian or any of those guys. Uh, they might be able to increase their presence as well, because at the end of the day, Hey, everybody's looking to build a bigger following on LinkedIn.

And it seems like there are a few best practices based on what we've talked to.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:27:01] I always say, LinkedIn is a platform of generosity. It's a place to think about we before. It's a place where anyone from someone who is graduating high school to someone who is on their third CMO or CEO role to somebody who has retired, every single person can be generous with their wisdom and with their advice.

And they can scale it. There are so many people who reach out. Can we catch up? Can I, 15 minutes? Can I ask you a question? Can I do that? I always recommend that leaders. Instead scale that wisdom. It's amazing if you can meet with people one-on-one but what if you could actually tell everyone the answer to those questions, whether it's the best advice you've ever gotten or career mantra or mistake that you've made or something that you learned along the way?

I think that this is really a huge opportunity and oftentimes people early in their career thing. I don't know if I have anything to add. I don't have that much experience. And I always say you have everything to add because you have lived a life of experience. You have different experiences that have made you, who you are in your personal and professional life.

And that's something that I think. Everyone should be leading with on the platform because it is authentic, it's vulnerable. And it's the kind of thing that really starts a conversation. And I think LinkedIn is the ultimate platform for conversations. There is just no better place to have a really meaningful conversation.

And I think that that's something that you've seen over the last year with COVID the brand and the platform. Changed dramatically in that so many people have become much more open about what they're going through, whether it's a picture of their work from home set up or, um, a post about, um, not being able to see their family for a long time and now being reunited.

Those are the kinds of things. If our personal and professional lives were intertwined before now, they are completely inseparable. And that's something that's really important for people to start talking more about.

Adam Conner: [00:29:12] Yeah. Listeners, if you could hear the full unedited version of these podcasts, you'd see.

So many of those real life moments coming into the business time recordings that we do, because it is a realer than ever. And I'll also. That experience of being vulnerable and, uh, and, and seeing it and exposure for it is certainly something I've seen as well. I mean, over the last couple of months, like the posts that I've made, or even the comments that I've made that have by and large received the majority of like either plots or understanding, or even a like, has been when I have told my vulnerable story and I had to get over that hump, I'm only seven, eight years into my career.

I've only been a couple of places I've never had any sea of anything before. And yet, uh, once I started to tip toe out into that water, um, people started to, to be attracted to that sort of thing. Uh, and, and my hope is that that only continues. And that sense of being vulnerable, I think flows well into the final question here that I have, which is around that advice.

Because the folks that listen into this show when I'm talking to a CML are probably looking to get advice about how to become a CMO. Um, but generally no matter who it is, folks are looking to build their own authentic path to be their own personal truth, whatever that may mean. And so it's a big question, but it's my final one today to you as somebody who's had all of this experience and can name drop all of these wonderful people from your firsthand accounts of their authenticity shining through.

The question is this, how can others build their own authentic selves up? I think you have a few tips and best practices here, and I'd like to go through them as we close out.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:30:51] Absolutely. One thing that I always say is, count yourself in people will talk to me about, well, I don't know what that person really want to have coffee with me, or do I have anything to offer?

And I say, yes, absolutely. Right. It goes back to the idea that the intern and the CEO can both learn things from each other. So a huge part of developing who you are authentically is counting yourself in is realizing that. You can't control how many other people are applying for a job, but you can control whether you are trying to go the extra mile and research before you interview or find somebody within the company to just chat about what the culture is like, or some of the ways in which you might be able to, uh, contribute to the company's problems and challenges.

Something else I talk a lot about is this idea that you have to always be. Patient, you know, it's funny. I, uh, or once said to me, you know, too many other people, impatience is a virtue impatience, right? And she said to you, I would say, patience is a virtue. Our society has now made it such that everyone is in a race to the C-suite or to what's perceived as power and success.

That's not actually the key to a happy life. The key to a happy life is enjoying where you are and that's where patients really comes in and don't get me wrong. I am all about advocating for yourself and about, you know, asking for what you want when the moment is right. But I think we have to remember that the speed of culture does not need to mimic the speed of our lives.

And that's something that's really, really important. Another thing that I would say is. Trust yourself, trust your instincts. It's really easy to second. Guess who you, who you are and what you have to add. And I think that's somewhere where I always recommend that people turn to a friend or a family member and do a little market research and they say, Hey, if you were going to hire me, what do you think would be the number one reason why you would, or what do you think is a talent that I have that.

I could bring to a company that's really how I first started thinking of myself as a connector. People started saying you're such a connector. And I was like, oh, I guess I am like, I really do love connecting people and making introductions and helping people collaborate with the right people. And I think that that's something that I also say is find ways to interview other people about you and about what you have to add.

Adam Conner: [00:33:28] That's something that maybe I could even lean into personally Callie is that, you know, I suppose. All this time interviewing others about them. And I wouldn't make those self-serving, but there might be an opportunity for me to ask those questions. And for anybody listening here, that is something that I have heard to be a common factor amongst one's authentic journey is not only to find those things that, you know, you won't compromise on or to go at your own pace.

You don't have to mimic, uh, the speed of society, as you just mentioned there, Callie, uh, but also to lean into your relative strengths. Go ahead.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:34:00] I was just going to say, Adam, you are a storyteller through and through you're somebody who sees larger trends and narratives. And I think that something that we also talk about too much is find your passion.

I was someone who I have been passionate about storytelling since I was seven years old and writing. Beanie babies. Okay. Uh, some people, some people may be like, what is that? What does a baby baby? But I was obsessed with beanie babies and I loved writing stories about them. And I still, you know, however many years later writing stories and telling other people's stories yet, what I always say to people who say to me, how do you find your passion is I say, start finding, but start by finding what you hate.

Because it's just as valuable to know what you don't like as what you do like, and that's where you mentioned earlier, the idea of opening yourself up to different experiences. I always say try different jobs, try things that are outside, what you think might be an industry that you're interested in.

Learn from different people. Net people think networking is a dirty word because it sounds so transactional and it absolutely can be. But what if, instead of saying, well, I am a marketer, I must talk to other marketers. What if you said I'm a marketer and I'm going to talk to an artist because an artist is thinking about creativity and expression and so many different things that also apply to.

My world and to my job. So I think a huge part of it is opening yourself up to conversations and opportunities where you can figure out what it is that you like and what it is that you don't like.

Adam Conner: [00:35:39] To be intensely curious. I of course can resonate with that immediately. And I hope our listeners will too.

And good note on the following or not following a quote unquote passion. I believe Scott Galloway gave a talk or at least answered the question about that in a panel where he said that. Was one of the most ridiculous pieces of advice he's ever heard because that, yeah,

Callie Schweitzer: [00:36:00] I think that was in an interview with LinkedIn's own Jessi Hempel on "Hello Monday."

Adam Conner: [00:36:06] I thought, I think, I think you're right. So that's another resource listeners by the way, the "Hello Monday." Um, so I, I can't thank you enough for this like broad look because I add marketers and I say that because. I've done this between this and prior podcast that I've done. Uh, probably like 200 times.

I have never it's too bad, really, but I've never been able to talk somebody talk to somebody who looks at these leaders in the same way that I do from a broad, like journalism perspective, but really with somebody who has such a rich catalog of perspectives like mine. And so a to hear that you're a fan of this is great, but beat too.

Get your perspective here and to help build that definition out more broadly is a true treat and listeners you would do well to follow everything that Callie does on LinkedIn. She is the driving force behind a lot of the marketing leadership that gets published, and I would make her your very next follow, uh, for now for this, uh, lengthy conversation rich with detailed, just nutritionally dense, wonderfully, wonderfully done.

Thank you, Callie so much. I can't wait for our listeners to hear it. I'm glad I got to hear it first.

Callie Schweitzer: [00:37:18] Thank you so much for having me, Adam, excited to keep listening to the podcast.


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